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Should we be able to build Nanite Factories on Moons?

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Should we be able to build Nanite Factories on Moons?

Yes
34
56%
No
27
44%
 
Total votes : 61

Re: Should we be able to build Nanite Factories on Moons?

Postby Eterna » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:55 pm

I've been testing this and I gotta say.. it makes moons almost a cakewalk to develop...

I'm going to start work on a new building, like the nanite, but with higher costs and/or lower improvements and a max level.
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Re: Should we be able to build Nanite Factories on Moons?

Postby KnightofNi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:42 pm

Nanites on moons are a HORRIBLE idea... then again I've only said this about 20 billion times and nobody seems to actually think about it. Why the hell would unbreakable moons be a good thing? If you add nanites on moons that build defenses at double the rate, then you'd sure as hell had better start buffing the shit out of the completely useless RIPs.

What I've suggested all along is a building-only nanite-like building on the moon... one that might increase it by 50% per level instead of doubling, and that doesn't affect ships OR defenses. I don't care about building ships on my moons, I have planets to do that on - and people shouldn't be able to fit 20000 gravs on their moon either (I know that nobody has gotten there yet...but its coming) because then it would be completely unbreakable for anything, especially considering moons can't get IPM'd.

You people really need to think about these votes before you cast them because what eos has just said is what I was saying for the last 4 damn months.
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Re: Should we be able to build Nanite Factories on Moons?

Postby ThatGuyEric » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:18 am

Maybe some people want to see a game where turtles stand a chance. Just because some people have different opinions from yours doesn't mean they aren't as thought out.
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Re: Should we be able to build Nanite Factories on Moons?

Postby KnightofNi » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:28 am

There's a difference between "where turtles can play the game" and "having an unkillable moon even for a fleeter." By definition, turtles build their defenses on a planet - its one of their weaknesses if they then decide to get a fleet. Having that shell on a moon makes it impossible to fleet hunt the turtle if you catch their fleet sitting and they run away because you can't pop the moons. I've been running numbers the last couple days, and I've found that ALL of the basic defenses (up until PTs) are FOUR TIMES more cost effective. I did this by taking their shield/armor value and attack/armor values and added them together for a decent sense of overall cost-effectivity. I also found definitively that some ships are 100% useless (the avatar anyone, with a whopping value of .000058 compared to the .02 of the lune and .7 of the light laser), and although I don't take RF into account (haven't figured out a decent way to do so... might have an idea though), the ion cannon has a value of 2.06..FAR and away the highest in the game. Defenses aren't meant to be built on moons, and if you want to build them it should be really slow going unless you want to sacrifice a TON of spaces into shipyards (personally, 10 lanx is preferred over 5 lanx and 5 sy o_O), considering that lunar bases are so costly after a point.

The people that say that turtles don't have a chance haven't fucking looked at the defenses against the ships... its a stupid comparison when you look at it. When the weakest low-tech defense (strongest with RF though) in the game has a stronger W/A + S/A value in the game than ANY SHIP - including the two ships that "counter" it, there is something wrong with the shiplist... which is something that I'd like to talk directly to eos about (but I haven't seen him online at all recently >.>... get on chat d00d). From a balance perspective, there is something wrong here, and the nanites on moons makes that even worse.

Also, if anyone has any ideas about how to calculate RF into the strength value, I'm all ears rofl.
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Re: Should we be able to build Nanite Factories on Moons?

Postby Eterna » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:36 am

Ni, i think i've made it pretty clear that I don't like the idea.. I can't force anyone to think that way though.

If it means we have to allow it, then wait till the situation actually arises, instead of just a hypothesis about what "could" happen.
If it is that much of a problem, I'll remove it and say "sorry, no dice".
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Re: Should we be able to build Nanite Factories on Moons?

Postby ThatGuyEric » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:52 pm

I haven't done any tests or math, but assuming that what you say is true, defenses should be weakened. I have noticed that the stats of the avatar are pathetic. Also noticed that all the ships are pretty weak weapons-wise. 100 BC vs 100 BC test in sim, and only 30 are destroyed? Off topic a little, I know, but the point I'm trying to make is that the whole battle system needs some revamping, and we shouldn't compensate the unbalance by nerfing a different aspect of the game.
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Re: Should we be able to build Nanite Factories on Moons?

Postby Eterna » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:28 pm

completely off topic, you need to read up more and post where it's necessary.

there have been combat trials going on for approx 2 weeks with little complaints, more tests still coming.

I receive little input from players in the main game except "fix it" and frankly, if they were to take the time to try and analyze it.. they'd realize why it's not quite that simple.
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Re: Should we be able to build Nanite Factories on Moons?

Postby ThatGuyEric » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:56 pm

Eterna wrote:completely off topic, you need to read up more and post where it's necessary.

there have been combat trials going on for approx 2 weeks with little complaints, more tests still coming.

I receive little input from players in the main game except "fix it" and frankly, if they were to take the time to try and analyze it.. they'd realize why it's not quite that simple.


I'm not trying to bitch here, but I don't see the reason in what you've said. Part of my post was off-topic, because I was tying it in with the rest. If I just said the battle system was shaky without providing any examples, wouldn't I be another person saying "fix it" and nothing more? You tell me to read up. I would assume that's because I'm misinformed? I admit, I am new to this game, but I think simulations show everything I need to know about the combat engine. Or maybe you want me to read this specific topic. Cool, I read a good part of it, which doesn't sway my opinion. You say to post when necessary. I was under the impression that you wanted players opinions on as much as possible, and I was providing my opinion. And yes, I'm sure it is hard to program a game, but when did I demand that it be fixed right away? I said the system is flawed because it was related to knight's comment, not to complain.
Rereading my comment, it sounds a little harsh, which it was not intended to be. I just felt like I was being shushed and wanted to say why.

So, back to the subject, when ships and defenses are a little more balanced, and fleets can compete more with defenses, ships, being the profitable one, would eventually prevail over defense. Nanites or something similar on moons would be a nice implementation, and would not give turtles too much of an edge. In fact, unless defenses start spitting out res, in my mind a turtle will always be at a disadvantage, including now. Even If someone could get an unpoppable moon, then what? You couldn't lanx them? You wouldn't be able to attack them anyway because of the shell. It is basically a way to help out teammates FS and avoid IPMs. That would not be game-breaking, and furthermore, as I earlier said, would be very difficult to achieve in the long run.
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Re: Should we be able to build Nanite Factories on Moons?

Postby Eterna » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:58 pm

you weren't being shushed, keep the posts on the topic please.

i also didn't say YOU were saying "fix it" but i did want to make it clear that there have been enough hypothesis and too little work being done to correct the situation - player involvement is necessary!

if we have discussion of all topics all over the place then how the hell can people make sense of the messages? Do me a favour and keep discussion on the topic at hand.

clear?

and in case you didn't notice, this forum is not like those ran in other games - i have no customer service skills and i don't try to enforce any strict rules... except for staying on topics.
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Re: Should we be able to build Nanite Factories on Moons?

Postby Taaxi » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:44 am

There is no such thing as an "unpoppable" moon. If someone has a ton of defenses on their planet, does this make the planet unattackable? Of course not. So how does a bunch of defenses on a moon make it unpoppable? All it takes is a bigger fleet to pop it.
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